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Author Topic: Speed Vs Weight  (Read 1487 times)

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Offline bob

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Speed Vs Weight
« on: November 02, 2013, 11:52AM »
I may not be phrasing the question correctly.

What I am trying to ask is for our end of the woods.  What is better to stay subsonic and heavy like in a 45/70 or supersonic and light ... or somewhere in the middle?

if that is not clear then, what is your favorite all around caliber for the hunt?
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Offline bob

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Re: Speed Vs Weight
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2013, 11:54AM »
if you reload... then share your reload data as well....  I needs me some deer sausage.
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Offline papabear

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Re: Speed Vs Weight
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2013, 12:24PM »
for hunting deer a heavy bullet is best A light bullet with go though a deer and do little damage where a heavy bullet when it hits will and where it exits will do more damage and bring the animal down faster this is my opinion  I took all my big game with a 200 grain bullet from my 35 marlin hope this helps you

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Offline OldGarandDad

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Re: Speed Vs Weight
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2013, 02:24PM »
What Papa Bear said.

It all depends on what you want to do. As a rule, that can be broken at times, subsonic projectiles will deliver more of the kinetic force to the target where a hypersonic projectile is more useful in making a larger wound channel and internal damage. That is one of the reasons for the military adopting the 5.56x45mm. The 5.56 round makes a hell of a large cavity when it enters soft tissue where the .30 caliber projectiles (.308 and .30-06) delivered more kinetic energy to the target. (Yes, I know the .30 caliber is generally hypersonic but can be loaded and used effectively sub-sonic too. I am trying to make a point here.)

Fore really big game a metplat subsonic round is great, especially if you have a tough thick hide you need to penetrate. For mid-sized, thin skinned game a hypersonic load is better.

Save that 45-70 Government for buffalo, big wild boar or a crazed jihadi clad in body armor.
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Offline cas

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Re: Speed Vs Weight
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2013, 02:30PM »
Ive shot two deer with warm/hot 45-70 loads, one with a Remington 300gr JHP and one with a Remington 405gr JFP. Both did the job.  Generally bullet construction is your main concern, you want a bullet that with hold together, penetrate and not break up, come apart and not penetrate.

I personally felt the 300's I was using, at the speeds I was shooting them, were pushing the edge construction wise. (for close shots, father shots after they'd slowed down a bit they would have been fine) A stronger built bullet, something with a bonded core perhaps would hae been a better choice in that weight.  I switched to the 405's because of the bear issue we were having. I wanted a stronger bullet that would penetrate more should the problem bear cross my path.


You say subsonic. Do you truely mean subsonic, below 1100 fps or do you mean just a heavy slower bullet?   Fact of the matter is, with whitetail deer and the ranges you're likely to shoot one at with that gun, anything will work.  But a 500 grain hard cast bullet wouldn't be my choice for deer though, I'd want something that will expand some more and dump some of that energy inside the deer. A heavy slow 500gr 45-70 (especially round nose) will shoot through a buffalo no problem, it's going to go through a deer like it wasn't even there.  The problem if unless you hit some bones and break it down,
it may run a long long way before it runs out of blood and tips over.
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Online sbninja

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Re: Speed Vs Weight
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2013, 02:45PM »
Heavy, light, slow, fast.....ect....ect....

Hit the vitals(boiler room) and thats one dead deer :bobwink. If your the kind to close your eyes and fire a "hail mary" shot  :diosmio then , i guess bigger is better :thinking.

Me, I like to keep as much meat as possible, not blow half the deer away with a an elephant gun.

 :D

Pass through both lungs, and it's not gonna live long. :bobwink

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Online Postal Bob

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Re: Speed Vs Weight
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2013, 05:16PM »
I've shot deer with both. My first deer was with a 25-06, loaded down to very light loads. But because of the light bullets in 25-06, I opted for a Nosler partition bullet. So even at the lower speed it penetrated to the far side.
Then I used to use a 308win with 165 gr bullets. Deer shot thru the lungs would always run somewhat, but always died close by.
Now my current deer rifle is a 30-06 shooting 180gn Nosler Accubonds at about 2682 fps.  That is slightly below maximum velocity. I went to that because of bear, and because of where I was hunting, I needed to drop deer in their tracks, regardless of meat damage. And those Accubonds blast thru anything. I've shot 3 deer broadside, with the bullet going completely thru both shoulders, and the deer dropping in their tracks. And one deer with a frontal shot with the bullet going the length of the deer with a high lung shot.

You have to use the right cartridge and bullet for the game at hand. You wouldn't want to shoot a deer with a .22 rimfire, and vice versa, you wouldn't want to shoot squirrels with a 45/70.  :rimshot
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 05:21PM by Postal Bob »
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Offline papabear

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Re: Speed Vs Weight
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2013, 07:00PM »
I bin hunting for over 30 years bin using a 35 marlin with a 200 grain bullet since 1985 I also shot my bear with this set up and down in Texas I shot my Audad sheep with it I took deer out to 75 yards my audad was at lest 70 yards and my bear was 45 yards nothing ran over 30 yards before falling over dead no meat lost as my shots on my deer were in the chest right behind the legs ribs and lungs I saved the harts good eating when cooked right the bear in top of the hear and exited behind the left shoulder  I think a slower bullet will do more damage and drop your deer faster then a faster bullet I tracked many a deer shot by guys with a faster bullet for a long distance keep it slow and close
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Offline cas

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Re: Speed Vs Weight
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2013, 07:59PM »
It's not about bullet weight fellas, don't get hung up on it like some folks do, it's about the construction.  A 100gr bullet in .243 is one of the strongest, toughest bullets in that caliber there is, meant to penetrate. A 100gr bullet in .30 cal is a frangible varmint bullet meant to explode.


"Bob" you want me to loan you a couple mid weight (405) bullets?  You wont need more than a couple. lol I know I have a few odds and end, probably some "pulls" from the brass I gave you. Say 3 rounds to sight it, 1 round to hunt with. (It's not like a match, you can't sight in as you're shooting at the deer. They won't stand still and let you make adjustments.)
:D
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Offline DM

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Speed Vs Weight
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2013, 08:22PM »

(It's not like a match, you can't sight in as you're shooting at the deer. They won't stand still and let you make adjustments.)
:D

We need a rule change.


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Offline hydtguy

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Re: Speed Vs Weight
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2013, 12:00AM »
I never had a good deer dinner, guess the only time I had it, just did not like it. Mom made it so bad it was like liver jerky.
Now if NY had a Cow season....... I'm your guy.
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Online Postal Bob

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Re: Speed Vs Weight
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2013, 06:40AM »
Quote
It's not about bullet weight fellas, don't get hung up on it like some folks do, it's about the construction.  A 100gr bullet in .243 is one of the strongest, toughest bullets in that caliber there is, meant to penetrate. A 100gr bullet in .30 cal is a frangible varmint bullet meant to explode.


Bullet construction is extremely important as you say. Thats why I load premium bullets in my hunting rounds.
But I wouldn't call the 100gr .243 bullet as one of the strongest. My son shot a fawn once with one right in the lung area. The bullet, after hitting a rib, deflected and disintegreatd and went about a foot back inside the deer hitting the stomach. I was amazed that the entry and final resting of bullet where about a foot different. Biggest mess I ever had to encounter. This was a factory round. If ever I use again, it'll be a premium bullet that won't fall apart so easy.
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Offline cas

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Re: Speed Vs Weight
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2013, 09:20AM »
It's one of the strongest for .243, where as anything lighter (save for a Nosler partition or a Barns X bullet) are all thin jacketed varmint bullets.
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